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FB bug?: Discussion groups showing "deleted" messages?

Hi all!!

Am currently in the process of taking FB throught its paces. I want to see if I could use FB as a "log" tool for a support  "post-sales" dept.

I know the tool is (primarly) geared to sw development, but as we *are* a SW dev. house, I'd like to introduce it where I can, and then extend its use through the company, if possible...

The thing is, Discussion Groups are, in my way of thinking, a great way of recording people's "wishes" or thouhts about issues... BUT, at least in my Trial when I mark a message as deleted, it _STILL_ shows (see the Discussion Group on http://try4.fogbugz.com/default.asp?id=41826SKMCGH&pg=pgDiscussTopics&ixDiscussGroup=1; the post with title "GET ONE BIG NOW!!!" is marked as deleted, but is still visible...)

Also, when logged on as an ADMIN, and using FIREFOX 1.0, the "info" link shows the email and IP, but after a couple of seconds, the page reolads and the info "disappears".

When usign IE or Mozilla 1.7.5, the link works OK...

Apart from that, a *GREAT* product.
Javier Jarava Send private email
Tuesday, March 1, 2005
 
 
It is supposed to show the deleted post to you, and to the person who posted it (and those on the same subnet).  This is so that spammers do not realize their post is deleted so they don't try to work around the system.

In fact, from the link you sent... I cannot see the post.  It is deleted to everyone but you.

You can read here for more about how it works:

http://www.fogcreek.com/FogBugz/docs/40/Articles/DiscussionGroups-2.html
Michael H. Pryor Send private email
Tuesday, March 1, 2005
 
 
The reload thing must be related to the HTML you put in for your discussion group.  FogBugz doesn't refresh this page automatically.
Michael H. Pryor Send private email
Tuesday, March 1, 2005
 
 
Hi!

Thanks for the clarification; good to know about the not-totally deleted messages...  I guess I'll have to place the FB server on its own subnet then, if I don't want the post to be shown to those on my own network... No, wait... Does that mean that all the people on the same subnet of, say, one poster from inside my CO. would see this poster's deleted comments??

From the docs., it says something about the same IP address and the same browser, but you seem to imply that it's more "the same IP and subnet" (what about NAT?).

Just trying to "grok" the thing...
Javier Jarava Send private email
Wednesday, March 2, 2005
 
 
Hi!

Just checking the "deleted" post issue.

I've just gone to the FB forum from _this_ computer 213.4.19.X, from where I had never logged onto FB 4 before (as a matter of fact, it's my home computer). The PC from where I did my "posting" was 80.58.0.x (from behind my company NAT FW), and I was using Firefox instead of MOZILLA...

But I still can see the post. It's baffling, to say the least...
Javier Jarava Send private email
Wednesday, March 2, 2005
 
 
RE: The "reload" of the Discussion Group Post.

I haven't done any HMTL changes to the Discussion groups.

I believe it might be a Firefox-related issue, as I've reproed it here on my home PC (where I have less extensions loaded than I have at work). Mozilla here behaves "as expected"....

If you think of any other way (besides "don't use Firefox", of course) that I could try to solve / isolate this issue, I'd be glad to try&help.
Javier Jarava Send private email
Wednesday, March 2, 2005
 
 
Mozilla and Firefox use the same rendering engine, gecko, so if they are on the same machine, they will share cookies. The presense of the same cookie makes FogBugz think you're still you.

Posts are shown to users with the same first-three-bytes in the IP address, so if the post comes from 1.2.3.4 then everyone in 1.2.3.x will see it. This is because it is common for people to move around within a subnet.

Remember that the goal of moderation (deleting posts) is to remove spam, abuse, etc., and FogBugz does it in a way which is less likely to get noticed by the spammer, abuser, etc., which prevents them from becoming angry that their beautiful spam was deleted and spam more, abuse harder, whine about censorship, etc.
Joel Spolsky Send private email
Wednesday, March 2, 2005
 
 
Hi!!

Thanks for a prompt response.... And sorry for coming bacj to  a topic that you might find tiresome... but I _still_ think there's something not-quite-right.


First of all, I had this (possibly mistaken) notion that, although Mozilla and Firefox _do_ share the rendering engine, they don't share a user profile (as a matter of fact, I have different cookies.txt, with different content, on %appdata%\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\<random-str>.default\cookies.txt and %appdata%\Mozilla\Profiles\default\<random-str>.slt\cookies.txt. So I'd say that they look like they don't share the cookies...

About the IP netmask/24 "sharing" (let it be said beforehand, that I think it's a good idea, to avoid "irate reposting"), if I made the post from a Firefox computer (W2003 - EN) from 80.58.0.x, I understand that the post will be visible to any PC from the same /24 network (ie, from all my company).. But this morning (spain time) I was posting from my HOME PC (213.4.19.x), where the post COULD be seen (using IE on a W2000 PRO ES computer), so I'd say that the "IP" feature is not working as told...

Of course, I might be mistaken in my understanding of the feature (truth to be told, I'd bet that's what happens; today is one of those I-should-never-have-left-the-bed days!!)
Javier Jarava Send private email
Wednesday, March 2, 2005
 
 
If you are logged in as an administrator, you will always see all deleted posts (with a big strike through in it).  This is by design.

Do you see the post with the strikethrough at work?  If so, log off FogBugz at home, and visit the discussion group.  The post should not appear to you.
Michael H. Pryor Send private email
Wednesday, March 2, 2005
 
 
Hi!

I kind of guessed the striked-out look was to keep a history of posts and suchlie, and indeed I had already noticed that "crossed out" look when logged in..

Am presently at home, using my WORK LAPTOP (a PC from where, if memory serves, I've never logged on into FB). In any case, I've just rebooted the Laptop, so I'm _not_ logged in onto FB.

From *BOTH* Mozilla 1.7.5 and IE 6, I can access the Discussion Group, and I can see the "supposedly" deleted message (I've added a new one to record my visit), and it is *NOT* striked out...

The relevant/related HTML is:

<div class="discussTopics">

                
            <a class="discuss" href="default.asp?postventa.1.3.0">This message is sent from HOME, using IE</a>
            <em>The NG SW seems to be misbehaving!</em>
            <span style="color:#aaa">

            (0 comments)
            </span>
            <br />
            
            <a class="discuss" href="default.asp?postventa.1.2.0">GET ONE BIG NOW!!!</a>
            <em></em>
            <span style="color:#aaa">
            (0)
            </span>
            <br />

            
            <a class="discuss" href="default.asp?postventa.1.1.0">Una primera impresi&#38;#243;n de los grupos de noticias</a>
            <em>Un nombre</em>
            <span style="color:#aaa">
            (0)
            </span>
            <br />
        </div><div class="discussCommands">
                <a href="default.asp?pg=pgDiscussPost&amp;ixDiscussTopicParent=0&amp;ixDiscussGroup=1">

                <img src="New.gif" width="13" height="14" border="0" alt="New" />
                New topic</a>
            
                <a href="default.asp?pg=pgDiscussArchive&amp;ixDiscussGroup=1">
                <img src="Archive.gif" width="13" height="14" border="0" alt="New" />
                Older topics</a>
                <br />&nbsp;
            </div>
Javier Jarava Send private email
Wednesday, March 2, 2005
 
 
Bring up a cmd window on your work laptop. 

Type ipconfig /all to get your IP address.

Log into FogBugz as an admin, look at the deleted big one now post and click info.  You should see the ip address of where the post came from.

Is that on the same X.X.X network, as the ip address of your work laptop?
Michael H. Pryor Send private email
Thursday, March 3, 2005
 
 
Also, you didn't CREATE that big one post from your work laptop right?  You created it from your workstation at work, no?
Michael H. Pryor Send private email
Thursday, March 3, 2005
 
 
Hi!

Still baffled...

Sunday, March 6, 2005
 
 
(sorry, I hit "send" too early!)
Hi!

Still baffled...

Now I'm on a WIRELESS network, outside IP: 80.28.219.86 using my work laptop, and the "offending" post is NOT visible.

The post was created using my WORK WKS (on 80.34.198.x), and from home (213.4.19.x) I was able to see the post from both this laptop and my HOME WKS...

The only thing that might be of any clue, is that the INTERNAL network here is 192.168.0.x, at work is 192.168.2.x and at home is 192.168.35.x... So I don't see any relation there, either.

The odd thing is, there is a "third" post on the Forum, that I made from home (Title: "This message is sent from HOME, using IE") AND the IP shown is 80.58.0.172... The only thing I can think of, is that TELEFONICA (the ISP we get both at home and at work) is doing some kind of proxying or similar..

Will try to do some more testing from differente places, to see if there is any change.
Javier Jarava Send private email
Sunday, March 6, 2005
 
 
What I was trying to say is:

I've checked the "strange" post from different IPs, but the posts I've done from both my home (213.x) and work IPs (regardless of computer), FB "reports" they were posted from the same IP address,  80.58.0.172.....

I've asked some friends who have different ISP providers, and/or are located on different cities, to connect to the NG and try to post, to see if the reported IP is different.

IF not, then at least the behaviour would be logical, as the FB server "sees" all of the connections as connections from the same IP address... OTOH, maybe that's a sign that the feature might have to be re-thought a little bit, because if it "groups"  all the people from the same country together, the feature is not too useful, at least from my P.O.V.
Javier Jarava Send private email
Sunday, March 06, 2005
Javier Jarava Send private email
Sunday, March 6, 2005
 
 

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